[antlr-interest] ANTLR build and package layout

Matt Benson gudnabrsam at yahoo.com
Thu Sep 19 12:23:33 PDT 2002


I know Ant just fine.  I use it daily; in fact I was
the one who seconded the opinion that an Ant file for
ANTLR would be a nice thing to have (in today's
discussion--more than likely the subject has come up
before).  Personally I tend to do everything the hard
way and will probably continue to type XML long after
the need has evaporated.  However if you read Ter's
bio you will learn that some of the concepts he has
put to use in ANTLR are viewed as groundbreaking work
in the field of parsing and language analysis.  The
man has far more education and experience (and quite
probably ability) than I, so even though I may
continue to want Ant build files despite his
convincing argument as to why Ant is a bad thing, I
will at the same time show him the respect he has
earned in our field.

-Matt

--- Xue-Feng Yang <just4look at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Do you know Ant?
> 
> Sure, you may not think it a fundamental
> contribution
> to computer science. However, it is much popular.
> 
> 
> Regard the comment. The great man said:"because it
> forces users to type XML". I don't think this is a
> point since only one person needs to write a
> build.xml
> for ANTLR and all others can share.
> 
> XML is not good if the data itself doesn't have tree
> structure, such as, 2*3+e^(sin(x)). It may result
> the
> data difficult to read. However, Ant is not the
> case. 
> 
> --- Matt Benson <gudnabrsam at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The article basically says that XML adds levels of
> > complexity the human mind has evolved to infer by
> > reflex.  Hopefully he wouldn't have to explain
> "why
> > that's bad."  Beyond that, I personally am careful
> > how
> > I speak to those who have made fundamental
> > contributions to computer science.  Have you?
> > 
> > Just some thoughts,
> > Matt
> > 
> > --- Xue-Feng Yang <just4look at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Totally disagree!
> > > 
> > > The link you gave doesn't talk about "why that's
> > > bad".
> > > 
> > > 
> > > BTW, I wrote several compilers without using any
> > > compiler compiler. However I never think that
> > > compiler
> > > compiler is useless.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- Terence Parr <parrt at jguru.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > On Thursday, September 19, 2002, at 06:27  AM,
> > > Matt
> > > > Benson wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > For whatever it's worth, Brian is not the
> only
> > > one
> > > > out
> > > > > here who wishes there were an Ant build for
> > > ANTLR.
> > > > 
> > > > I am fundamentally opposed to Ant (even though
> > it
> > > is
> > > > reputed to be 
> > > > good) because it forces users to type XML. 
> See
> > > > "Humans Should Not Have 
> > > > to Grok XML", which explains why that's bad:
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-sbxml.html
> > > > 
> > > > I believe I'm pretty persuasive in that
> article.
> > > ;) 
> > > > [though it will 
> > > > make no difference whatsoever to most people
> who
> > > are
> > > > "every language 
> > > > should be XML" people--makes me wanna retch,
> but
> > > > that emotion is a good 
> > > > thing since it forced me to make ANTLR (yacc
> > makes
> > > 
> > > > me...well..er...yack!)].
> > > > 
> > > > Nonetheless, my goal is to make ANTLR useful
> for
> > > you
> > > > folks.  Hence, if 
> > > > somebody sends me a fresh Ant script with an
> > > > explanation so I don't 
> > > > have to think much, I will consider inserting
> it
> > > and
> > > > using it for ANTLR 
> > > > builds.
> > > > 
> > > > Ter
> > > > --
> > > > Co-founder, http://www.jguru.com
> > > > Creator, ANTLR Parser Generator:
> > > > http://www.antlr.org
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >
> >
>
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> > > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
>
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