[antlr-interest] ANTLR Studio license issues

Jose San Leandro jose.sanleandro at ventura24.es
Thu Sep 22 09:32:12 PDT 2005


On Thursday 22 September 2005 17:39, Prashant Deva wrote:
> 1.)  Why isnt ANTLR Studio GPLed?
>
> Some people are saying that there is nothing in GPL that does not
> allow you to charge for your product.
>
> Yes, that is true, but it also says that you gotta distribute the
> source along for free.
>
> Now even a bonehead can conclude that if you can get the source code
> for free then you would rather just download it and compile it
> yourself than pay for the software. after all it takes only a minute
> to compile. So NO, get this clear, if your software is GPLd , it
> CANNOT be sold. Especially one like an IDE.

Well, I sold a GPLed tool for 12k $ recently. The customer had a problem, it 
fixes it, and now the customer is willing to pay for more features.

> That said some parts of ANTLR Studio do come under the Sun Public
> License and source will be provided with them. Specifically the
> AntlrStudio.Lexer_1.0.0.jar distributed with the beta is under SPL.
> You can download the source even now from netbeans site.
>
> 2.) Why dont i give the IDE for free and charge for services? Doesnt
> redhat use the same business model?
>
> There is a difference between providing support for an IDE and
> providing it for and Operating System.
> Also AS has from the begining been designed such that you can
> instantly start using it ful fledged without reading any manuals or
> requiring any support. If you watch the videos you will see it says -
> Time to learn ANTLR Studio - 0 minutes.
>
> So if you have used Eclipse before you should get started with using
> AS right away. There is nothing new to learn. No new keyboard
> shortcuts, etc. You dont need to modify your code for use with the
> debugger. Hell, you dont even need to press Ctrl+Space to auto
> complete!
>
> All the people who have got the beta version have been able to use
> without requiring any help from me ( aside from the bugs they
> encountered).
>
> 3.) Somebody said something like giving the software away with GPL
> allows the small guy to gain advantage in the market.
>
> I will correct you on this. Yes, it does so, but only when the the
> small guy is competing in a *large* market. The market for language
> tools is small, very small and i wont be surpised if ANTLR Studio soon
> becomes the leaading tool in the market.
>
> 4.) Some guys are saying that ANTLR should have been GPLed so that all
> tools for it would be GPL and that i am *selling* the work of Terence!
>
> This really is the craziest message i have got. NO, I am NOT selling
> Terence's work! ANTLR is still free and can be downloaded free of cost
> from antlr.org. ANTLR Studio has been designed from the ground up by
> me and me alone.
>
> The reason why ANTLR is not GPL is cause then every program that uses
> it would need to be GPLed and Terence certainly doesnt want that.
>
> I had a talk with Terence regarding ANTLR Studio going commercial and
> he told me that he was perfectly fine with it.

This seems to be *pragmatic* vs *moral*. Some recent post said that the only 
thing that matters is the "usefulness" of the software. Maybe that is too 
ambitious. I find that point of view respectful, but weak. In some sense, I'm 
also pragmatic. I use only Free software because it provides me the warranty 
that I will never regret: everything I learn, whatever customizations I do, 
will help me improving the way I use the tool. Non-free software doesn't 
allow me to improve my skills but using their rules: papers and keyboard 
shortcuts, at most.
I once used a tool called Together. I should had used Emacs since the 
beginning, despite all the features Together had. Me as a professional cannot 
afford going back and forward.

But anyway, if GPL makes it more difficult to make money, do you think 
"closing" it will give you better results? I wish you luck, but it's not 
about the GPL: you just don't care enough about the "4 freedoms" of ANTLR 
Studio customers. You just discard thinking about that *moral* stuff unless 
you got your monetary compensation. I hope you'd reconsider it should you get 
rich ;).

Regards,

> PRASHANT


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